Betty Goes to Church
...The church was almost full and she was conscious of being stared at, not unkindly but in a speculative fashion, but Nik's reassuring bulk beside her in the high pew gave her confidence and after the service, which, despite the lengthy and thunderous sermon, wasn't so very unlike her own church...
-At Odds With Love
Where exactly did this photo come from? The alter looks pre-vatican II RC, but I've never seen the 'pew-bicles' before, and I've seen a lot! lol
ReplyDeletePardon my French, they are 'Box Pews' not pew-bicles, but they do look like a combination of a pew and a cubicle, don't they? ;-P And they're in St. Paul's Nat'l Historic Church in Mt. Vernon, NY.
ReplyDeleteFas-kin-nating what we learn on this site!
I love the idea of a 'pew-bicle' with a door and everything to keep your toddler wrangled. Our church has the standard rows of cushioned (comfy) pews for the righteous...but if you're like us (scrambling to get four clean and tidy kids out the door for 9am church)then you're consigned to 'overflow' seating--metal folding chairs set up in the gym where the sound of every dropped matchbox car resounds. I like to think I'm learning something about sacrifice and steadfastness (while my eyes shoot lasers at the backs of the heads of the happy throngs of cushioned sitters)...
ReplyDeleteI didn't post this pic, btw, but Betty Debbie might know the source.
ReplyDeleteAlso, this may be a silly question, but in the name of ecumenical understanding, did Vatican II discuss pews and seating too?
This may not be an RC church at all -- I was raised Episcopalian and while it's not the same (our pews all faced the altar) this looks a lot like my church in Schenectady, NY, St. George's Anglican Church, c. 1765.
ReplyDeleteEven Reformed churches had "pewbicles" and raised altars. While their "reformed-ness" is decidedly watered down these days, Congregational churches in New England - the old ones anyway - still have their pulpits raised. "Six feet above criticism."
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"Six feet above criticism"...I am metaphorically snorting milk out my nose. That's hilarious.
ReplyDeleteBetty Mary correctly pointed out that the picture is from St. Paul's Church...which was Episcopal. There's an article about it here.
The church has been designated by Congress as the ‘National Shrine of the Bill of Rights’ because it was on the adjacent green that Governor William Cosby denied voting rights to Quakers in 1733, which laid the basis for a mighty brouhaha involving the media. John Peter Zenger published the Governor’s refusal, and was arrested on the charge of ‘seditious libel’. A court with the Governor’s own hand-picked judges could not find Zenger guilt because the alledged libel was actually fact (see the Crown vs. Zenger). It is generally agreed that this was the basis for Freedom of the Press in British North America, and later, with the First Amendment, in the United States.
Betty Barbara here--
ReplyDeleteOne of the big thrusts of Vatican II was turning the priest around so that he faced the congregation as he celebrated Mass. The other was having the Mass celebrated in the local language, rather than Latin.
Having lived through all of that, I can't remember any changes to where the worshipers sat.
In Catholic churches the pews faced the alter, and the pulpit was to the side of the alter and faced the flock.
What Betty Keira, No Cry Rooms? A wonderful invention, although Prof. Vue der Plane avoided them at all cost. My favorite is the church that had a nursing room where the service was piped in. I loved that church! I spent a lot of time in that room! ha ha ha.
ReplyDeleteI'm remembering the same Betty Barbara. That's why the photo confused me. To my limited memory, (I was very, very young then.REALLY...)the direction or height of the pews never changed. Except, for getting closer to the alter and in some churches the alter is in the center of the church (St. Peter's, the Vatican for one) so the faithful face the alter from all sides.
The alter in the photo looked like the Latin Rite (priest back to faithful and elevated above them), which is alive and well in pockets of the Catholic church, but the pews were something totally foreign to me.
I'm friends with a young conservative priest who has a flock of traditional Tridentine Latin Mass Catholics. They have the back facing alter. JP II and Pope Benedict have both approved of allowing the Tridentine Mass. Our Bishop is allowing him to 'build' his parish in the basement of the cathedral in Lansing. I love the beauty and sacredness of the Latin mass, and I equally love the ability to understand and participate in the Venacular. I'm glad that both are now allowed. We have several rites that are in full communion with Rome. These include Marionite, Coptic, Chaldean, Syriac, Syro–Malabarese, Byzantine, Aremenian, Anglican Use,Carthusian, Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Carmelite and many others. That's what makes the church catholic with a small c - that's universal. (homily over! lol)
Thanks, Betty Mary. That was very interesting.
ReplyDeletePretty much every Mormon building is set up to have a nursing mother's room which has at least two swiveling, rocking recliners(sometimes very tight quarters though--I have sat on the carpet in there a time or two when we run out of seating) with the service piped in. Nowadays, I or the hub can take the toddler to one of two pretty large classrooms with audio piped in. There are doors that shut and my littlest can run around and toss his Thomas trains to his heart's content--though we're trying to teach him to last an entire sacrament service without needed the recourse. Of course, the audio is also piped into the foyer but that's only if we're really desperate...
If I remember correctly (it's been almost 10 years now), St. Giles Cathedral in Edinburg had those pewbicles. Can't remember if there is a visit to St. Giles in the all Scots book coming up on review Thursday, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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